WoW Forever Rogue Guide: How Assassination, Combat and Subtlety Play

The WoW Forever rogue is still the class of stealth, energy and combo points, but each tree now has a game of its own: Assassination revolves around poisons with Mutilate and the Venom finisher, Combat rewards the type of weapon you carry, and Subtlety lives on opening from stealth and on Rupture. This guide explains how each tree plays, what you learn along the way, what to do with poisons and stealth, which stats to look for and how to level. It doesn't say which one is "the best": all three reach 60.

Everything comes from the beta client (build 1.60.1.70205, level 30) and Blizzard's notes. Blizzard hasn't published a written class explainer for the rogue yet; there is only an official video. It may change before November 4.

In short:

• Assassination: two weapons, poisons everywhere, Mutilate as your builder from the last level 30 talent point, and crits that turn into more combo points.
• Combat: the most comfortable one for soloing; cheap Sinister Strike and Eviscerate, more dodge and parry, and Blade Flurry to hit two enemies.
• Subtlety: you start every fight from stealth with Ambush or Garrote, arrive with extra combo points and finish with Hemorrhage and Rupture.

What changes from Classic

What really changes according to the beta client compared with the Classic one:

Two fixes from the October 1 notes: if Expose Armor fails you no longer lose your combo points. And since September 24, Sap flags you for PvP if you use it on a flagged target.

What you learn from level 1 to 40

Levels are the trainer's in the beta client. Only the spells that matter; every new rank is in the rogue spellbook.

Poisons and stealth

Poisons

Poisons are in the "Poisons" tab of the spellbook. You craft them yourself, they take 3 s to apply and coat the weapon for 30 min or until the charges run out. The client doesn't say at what level each one is learned, so we won't make it up.

The book also has Numbing Poison, Atrophic Poison, Sebacious Poison and Occult Poison I. Occult Poison I counts as Deadly Poison for talent purposes and also makes the target take 4 % more magic damage. We don't yet know how all of them are obtained in Forever.

In Assassination poisons are the core: Mutilate hits harder against poisoned targets, Improved Poisons and Vile Poisons make them land more often and hurt more, and the Venom finisher boosts them. In Combat and Subtlety they're an extra: Instant Poison on both hands is enough to level.

Stealth

Stealth is what lets you choose the fight. The basics:

• Stealth hides you at the cost of 50 % less speed. With Camouflage the penalty drops by 15 % and the cooldown by 6 s.
• From stealth you open with Ambush (damage), Garrote (damage over time, and an extra point in Subtlety) or Cheap Shot (stun).
• Sap takes a humanoid out of the fight before it starts. Distract turns enemies around so you can slip behind.
• Pick Pocket and Pick Lock give you items and chests while you level.
• Vanish is your way out: back to stealth and you shed slows. With Elusiveness its cooldown is shorter.
• Master of Deception and Heightened Senses are the talents of someone who lives in stealth, especially in PvP.

Assassination: how it plays

Assassination is the rogue of poisons and crits. Carry two weapons, apply poisons to both and build points with Mutilate, which gives two at once. It deals a lot of sustained damage to a single target and holds up in long fights. It struggles more against several enemies at once and depends on having poisons applied; without them, Mutilate loses part of its appeal. Until the last level 30 talent point you play with Sinister Strike, so the first few dozen levels look a lot like Combat.

Talents at level 30, in order

• Malice (5 points) goes first: 5 % crit chance with attacks and poisons. Everything after it wants crits.
• Murder (2) gives 4 % damage against humanoids and giants. While leveling, half of what you kill is humanoid.
• Ruthlessness (3) gives your finishers a 60 % chance to leave you a combo point for the next one. Less build-up time between finishers.
• Relentless Strikes (1) returns energy when finishing: 20 % per combo point to restore 25. With five points, it's guaranteed.
• Lethality (4) raises the crit damage of Sinister Strike, Backstab, Gouge and Hemorrhage. Needs Malice maxed.
• Improved Poisons (5) applies poisons 10 % more often and gives them a 50 % chance not to use a charge. Sets the stage for Mutilate.
• Mutilate (1), with point 21. From here on, this is your builder.

With the 5 points of Talented: the last one in Lethality, Cold Blood for a guaranteed crit when you need it, and 3 in Vile Poisons so poisons hit harder. Later on, the Venom finisher needs 30 points in this tree.

Load these 21 points in the calculator

With the 5 points from Talented (Legacy), up to 26:

Load all 26 points in the calculator

Priority against one target

1. Apply poisons out of combat: Instant Poison in the main hand and Deadly Poison in the off hand.
2. Open from Stealth with Garrote (14) or Cheap Shot (26) if you want control.
3. Slice and Dice (10) with 1-2 points at the start: more attack speed means more poison.
4. Mutilate (talent, 30) to build points; before 30, Sinister Strike (1).
5. At 4-5 points, Eviscerate (1). Against targets that last, Rupture (20) first.
6. Cold Blood (if you have it) right before a 5-point Eviscerate.

Against several enemies

Assassination has no area attack. Keep Slice and Dice up, hit the one that matters most and control the rest: Gouge (6) on one and Kidney Shot (30) on the next. With Crippling Poison on one hand, the ones that run don't get far.

Stats

Agility first. In the weights the site uses, each point of hit and crit is worth as much as or more than one of agility. Strength and attack power are worth half, and weapon DPS counts for a lot: a better weapon is the biggest upgrade you can make.

Gear worth looking for

See this role's full BiS

Combat: how it plays

Combat is the rogue who hits head-on. It doesn't need to be behind the target or start in stealth, spends less energy on Sinister Strike and Eviscerate, dodges and parries more and has Blade Flurry for when two come at you. It's the most comfortable tree for soloing and for leveling without stopping. It struggles more to perform with a dagger, because Backstab needs you behind the target, and it depends a lot on the weapon: with Hack and Slash each weapon type gives a different benefit.

Talents at level 30, in order

• Improved Sinister Strike (2): Sinister Strike costs 5 less energy. It's what you'll press the most.
• Improved Eviscerate (3): 20 % more damage on your main finisher.
• Lightning Reflexes (3): extra dodge. When soloing, you're the one getting hit; every blow that doesn't land is food you don't spend.
• Precision (3): 3 % more chance to hit. Missing is losing energy.
• Deflection (2): more parry, for the same reason as dodge.
• Endurance (2): Sprint and Evasion come back 60 % sooner. Evasion every so often is the difference between winning and losing a fight against two.
• Flawless Execution (1): Eviscerate costs 10 less energy. Together with Improved Sinister Strike, your pace of strikes goes up a lot.
• Dual Wield Specialization (4): more off-hand damage. Needs Precision maxed.
• Blade Flurry (1), with point 21: 20 % more attack speed and your strikes reach a second enemy for 15 s.

With the 5 points of Talented: the last one in Dual Wield Specialization and 4 in Hack and Slash, which gives a benefit depending on your weapon: an extra attack with swords and axes, crit with daggers and fist weapons, ignored armor with maces. Later on, Aggression and Adrenaline Rush.

Load these 21 points in the calculator

With the 5 points from Talented (Legacy), up to 26:

Load all 26 points in the calculator

Priority against one target

1. Go in with Sinister Strike (1); auto attack starts on its own with the macro below.
2. Slice and Dice (10) with 1-2 points, and renew it before it drops.
3. Sinister Strike until you have 5 points.
4. Eviscerate (1) at 5 points. Against bosses, alternate with Rupture (20) once Slice and Dice is up.
5. Kick (12) on every spell you can cut.

Against several enemies

Activate Blade Flurry (talent) and hit one: the second takes every strike. Keep Slice and Dice up so the flurry goes faster. If there are three or more, Evasion (8) first and Kidney Shot (30) on the one hitting hardest.

Stats

The same as Assassination: agility, then hit and crit, and a weapon with good DPS. Weapon type matters more here because of Hack and Slash; if you're human, Sword Specialization adds crit with swords.

Gear worth looking for

See this role's full BiS

Subtlety: how it plays

Subtlety is the opener's rogue. Prepare every fight in stealth, go in with Ambush or Garrote and gain extra combo points with Initiative and Premeditation, so you reach the first finisher before anyone else. From level 30, Hemorrhage makes Rupture hurt more. It shines in PvP and against lone targets you can choose. It struggles when it can't start hidden (in a group, the tank has already started), and almost all of its strong damage wants a dagger.

Talents at level 30, in order

• Opportunity (2): 10 % more damage on Backstab, Garrote, Ambush and Mutilate. Your openers.
• Master of Deception (3): enemies detect you as if you were 3 levels higher. You reach their backs more often.
• Improved Ambush (3): 45 % more crit chance on Ambush. The opener becomes almost always a crit.
• Elusiveness (2): Vanish and Blind come back 90 s sooner. More exits, more restarted fights.
• Initiative (3): Ambush, Garrote and Cheap Shot always give an extra combo point.
• Ghostly Strike (1): a damaging strike that also raises your dodge 15 % for 7 s; with a dagger in the main hand it hits much harder.
• Camouflage (1): less movement speed penalty in Stealth. You need the point to open the next row.
• Serrated Blades (3): you ignore 9 % of armor and your Rupture does 30 % more. Hemorrhage needs this maxed.
• Premeditation (1): 2 free combo points before opening. With Initiative, you can start with 4 or 5.
• Heightened Senses (1): you see other stealthed players better and fewer spells and ranged attacks reach you.
• Hemorrhage (1), with point 21: your new builder and what makes Rupture grow.

With the 5 points of Talented: 2 in Dirty Deeds (Garrote and Cheap Shot cheaper and Garrote without being behind), 2 more in Camouflage and the first of Quietus, which raises the damage of Sinister Strike, Ghostly Strike and Hemorrhage against low-health targets.

Load these 21 points in the calculator

With the 5 points from Talented (Legacy), up to 26:

Load all 26 points in the calculator

Priority against one target

1. Stealth (1), approach from behind and use Premeditation (talent) if it's ready.
2. Open with Ambush (18) if you carry a dagger; if not, Garrote (14). Against players, Cheap Shot (26).
3. Hemorrhage (talent, 30) to build points; before that, Sinister Strike (1) or Backstab (4) if you're behind and have a dagger.
4. Rupture (20) at 5 points with Hemorrhage up.
5. Eviscerate (1) with the next 5 points, or Kidney Shot (30) if you need time.
6. If the fight goes wrong: Vanish (22) and open again.

Against several enemies

Subtlety has nothing for groups. Before going in, Sap (10) a humanoid and Distract (22) the others to position yourself. Once in, Blind (34) takes another out of the fight. Against large groups, better not to go in.

Stats

The same as the other two: agility, hit and crit, and a weapon with good DPS. In Subtlety the dagger in the main hand rules: Ambush, Backstab and Ghostly Strike want it.

Gear worth looking for

See this role's full BiS

Interrupting, controlling and surviving

How to level

The fundamentals apply to every tree:

• Fight at your level. An enemy two or three levels above you dodges and parries more, and the rogue lives off its strikes landing.
• Swap weapons as soon as you can and visit the trainer every two levels: almost all your new ranks come at even levels.
• Keep poisons on. They cost 3 s out of combat and last 30 min.
• Eat well: crafted food gives 5 % more experience per kill if you're well fed. The cozy sleeping bag adds up to 3 % more.
• Steal before you kill. Pick Pocket on every humanoid gives you free items while you level.

Combat is the most comfortable tree for soloing: more dodge, cheap finishers and Blade Flurry when two get together. Assassination also levels well and plays the same until 30. Subtlety is slower for chain-killing because each fight needs an opener, but it makes up for it in PvP and for sneaking into dangerous zones. In a group, all three do damage; Combat is the one that handles several enemies best.

More help: the 1-60 leveling guide and What should I do at my level?.

Professions that fit

• Leatherworking with Skinning: you make your own leather armor and make use of every beast you kill.
• Engineering: among the pieces the site recommends at level 30 there are two engineering trinkets, the Minor Recombobulator and the Mechanical Dragonling.
• Alchemy with Herbalism: healing potions for yourself, since you have no way to heal.
• First Aid and Cooking, always: bandages to heal between fights and food for the extra experience.

Races that fit

No race is mandatory. What matters to a rogue:

Alliance

• Human: Sword Specialization (2 % crit with swords) fits Combat; Perception helps you see other rogues.
• Dwarf: Stoneform cleanses bleeds and poisons and lowers physical damage; Mace Specialization if you use maces.
• Night elf: Quickness makes you harder to detect in stealth; Shadowmeld is a second hiding place.
• Gnome: Expansive Mind (5 % more energy) and Escape Artist to break free of slows.
• Skyborne (High Order): Wind Blessed (1 % haste) and Walk on Air to get down from anywhere.

Horde

• Orc: Blood Fury (10 % attack power) and Hardiness against stuns; Axe Specialization if you use axes.
• Undead: Will of the Forsaken breaks fears and sleeps. Touch of the Grave no longer pulls you out of stealth with Distract or when stealing.
• Troll: Berserking (10 % attack speed) and Regeneration to rest less.
• Skyborne (Windshapers): Wind Blessed and Skysight to move faster.

Consumables

• Crafted food from Cooking: the kind that gives the well-fed bonus, for the extra experience.
• Bandages from First Aid: your way of healing. Use them after Gouge or Blind to gain the seconds.
• Healing potions from Alchemy for fights that go wrong.
• Blinding Powder for Blind: always carry it.
• Poisons: those of your tree, on both hands.

Useful macros

A macro packs several commands into one button. These use the official spell names and the current game's syntax, which works in the beta. To create one: type /macro, click "New", paste the text and drag the icon to your bar. All of them, with a copy button, are on the rogue page; what each piece means is in the macro guide.

Stances, forms and aspects

Dismount and stealth (Intermediate · from level 1). Gets you off your mount and into stealth with a single press, so you can arrive and disappear.

#showtooltip Stealth
/dismount [mounted]
/cast [nostealth] Stealth

Stealth, focus and Sap (Intermediate · from level 10). Out of stealth it stealths you; in stealth it focuses whatever is under your mouse (or your target) and saps it, so your focus macros can control it again later.

#showtooltip Sap
/focus [@mouseover,harm,nodead][]
/cast [nostealth] Stealth; [@focus] Sap

Ambush in stealth, Backstab out of it (Intermediate · from level 18). For daggers: in stealth it opens with Ambush and, once in combat, the same button becomes Backstab. Both need you behind the target.

#showtooltip
/startattack [nostealth]
/cast [stealth] Ambush; Backstab

Garrote in stealth, Rupture out of it (Intermediate · from level 20). One button for bleeds: in stealth and from behind it opens with Garrote; in combat it spends your combo points on Rupture.

#showtooltip
/startattack [nostealth]
/cast [stealth] Garrote; Rupture

Attacking

Sinister Strike that starts your attack (Basic · from level 1). Makes sure your auto-attack is never left off.

#showtooltip Sinister Strike
/startattack
/cast Sinister Strike

Sinister Strike that switches back to your sword (Advanced · from level 1). The partner of the previous macro: put your sword on button 12 of the right action bar. After Ambush, if you still hold the dagger it switches you back to the sword and carries on with Sinister Strike. If you use a mace, change the weapon type.

#showtooltip Sinister Strike
/click [combat,noequipped:One-Handed Swords] MultiBarRightButton12
/startattack
/cast Sinister Strike

Sinister Strike on the tank's target (Advanced · from level 1). In dungeons: set the tank as your focus (/focus) and this macro takes their target, starts attacking and casts Sinister Strike. With no focus, it keeps your target.

#showtooltip Sinister Strike
/assist [@focus,help,nodead]
/startattack
/cast Sinister Strike

Eviscerate, or Slice and Dice with Shift (Intermediate · from level 10). Your two everyday finishers on one key: no modifier for damage, Shift for attack speed.

#showtooltip
/startattack
/cast [mod:shift] Slice and Dice; Eviscerate

Slice and Dice with both trinkets (Advanced · from level 10). Your burst on one key: uses the trinkets in slots 13 and 14 (if they have an on-use effect) and casts Slice and Dice. If a trinket is passive, that line does nothing.

#showtooltip Slice and Dice
/startattack
/use 13
/use 14
/cast Slice and Dice

Ambush that equips your dagger (Advanced · from level 18). For sword rogues who open with a dagger: put your dagger on button 11 of the right action bar. In stealth, if no dagger is equipped, the first press equips it and the second casts Ambush; out of stealth, Sinister Strike.

#showtooltip
/click [stealth,noequipped:Daggers] MultiBarRightButton11
/startattack [nostealth]
/cast [stealth,equipped:Daggers] Ambush; [nostealth] Sinister Strike

Rupture, or Expose Armor with Shift (Intermediate · from level 20). For long fights: Rupture by default and, with Shift, Expose Armor when the group has no other armor reduction.

#showtooltip
/startattack
/cast [mod:shift] Expose Armor; Rupture

Hemorrhage that starts your attack (Basic · from level 30). For Subtlety: your builder with auto-attack guaranteed. Needs the Hemorrhage talent.

#showtooltip Hemorrhage
/startattack
/cast Hemorrhage

Mutilate, or the Venom finisher with Shift (Intermediate · from level 40). For Assassination: Mutilate as your builder and, with Shift, the Venom finisher. Needs the Mutilate talent; Venom is another talent at the bottom of the tree.

#showtooltip
/startattack
/cast [mod:shift] Venom; Mutilate

Interrupts

Kick your focus (Basic · from level 12). Interrupts your focus without switching targets; with no focus, your target.

#showtooltip Kick
/cast [@focus,harm,nodead][] Kick

Kick, or Gouge with Shift (Intermediate · from level 12). Two stops on one button: Kick interrupts; if it is on cooldown, Shift for Gouge also stops the cast (the target must be facing you).

#showtooltip
/cast [mod:shift] Gouge; Kick

Kick: left-click target, right-click focus (Advanced · from level 12). Right-clicking the button kicks your focus; left-clicking kicks whatever is under your mouse, or your target. Handy if you click your abilities.

#showtooltip Kick
/cast [btn:2,@focus,harm,nodead] Kick; [@mouseover,harm,nodead][] Kick

Crowd control

Gouge on mouseover or focus (Basic · from level 6). Gouge a second enemy without dropping your target: the one under your mouse, else your focus, else your target. It must be facing you.

#showtooltip Gouge
/cast [@mouseover,harm,nodead][@focus,harm,nodead][] Gouge

Pick Pocket, then open with Cheap Shot (Advanced · from level 26). In stealth, the first press picks the target's pocket and the second stuns it with Cheap Shot. Changing targets restarts the sequence; out of stealth it does nothing.

#showtooltip
/stopmacro [nostealth]
/castsequence reset=target Pick Pocket, Cheap Shot

Cheap Shot in stealth, Kidney Shot out of it (Intermediate · from level 30). Your stun chain on one key: open with Cheap Shot from stealth and, when it ends, the same key finishes with Kidney Shot.

#showtooltip
/startattack [nostealth]
/cast [stealth] Cheap Shot; Kidney Shot

Blind on focus or mouseover (Basic · from level 34). Blinds your focus (for example, the one you sapped that woke up) or whatever is under your mouse, without switching targets. Uses the powder you make for Blind.

#showtooltip Blind
/cast [@focus,harm,nodead][@mouseover,harm,nodead][] Blind

Blind on focus with Shift, Gouge on mouseover (Advanced · from level 34). Crowd control for two enemies without switching targets: with Shift you blind your focus; with no modifier you gouge whatever is under your mouse, or your target (it must be facing you).

#showtooltip
/cast [mod:shift,@focus,harm,nodead] Blind; [@mouseover,harm,nodead][] Gouge

Defense and survival

Ghostly Strike that starts your attack (Basic · from level 1). Damage plus 15% more dodge for 7 sec, handy when you are solo and taking hits from the front. Needs the Ghostly Strike talent.

#showtooltip Ghostly Strike
/startattack
/cast Ghostly Strike

Evasion with a defensive trinket (Advanced · from level 8). Put your defensive trinket in the lower slot (14): one press fires it together with Evasion to survive a bad moment.

#showtooltip Evasion
/use 14
/cast Evasion

Feint, or Evasion with Shift (Intermediate · from level 16). In a group, Feint to drop threat; if the hits are already coming your way, Shift for Evasion to dodge them.

#showtooltip
/cast [mod:shift] Evasion; Feint

Vanish without your attack giving you away (Intermediate · from level 22). Stops auto-attack before you vanish, so your next swing does not pull you straight out of stealth.

#showtooltip Vanish
/stopattack
/cast Vanish

Vanish and Sprint to escape (Advanced · from level 22). Stops your attack, vanishes and runs off in stealth. If both share the global cooldown in Forever, the second press casts Sprint.

#showtooltip Vanish
/stopattack
/cast Vanish
/cast Sprint

Utility

Stealth and Pick Pocket on mouseover (Intermediate · from level 4). Out of stealth it stealths you; in stealth it picks the pocket of whatever is under your mouse, or your target. In Classic, Pick Pocket required stealth.

#showtooltip Pick Pocket
/cast [nostealth] Stealth; [@mouseover,harm,nodead][] Pick Pocket

Sprint and stealth (Intermediate · from level 10). Out of combat it stealths you and sprints; Sprint does not break stealth, so you cross a zone unseen and faster.

#showtooltip Sprint
/cast [nocombat,nostealth] Stealth
/cast Sprint

Distract where you aim (Basic · from level 22). Casts Distract at the ground spot under your mouse, no extra click.

#showtooltip Distract
/cast [@cursor] Distract

Pick Lock, or Disarm Trap with Shift (Intermediate · from level 30). Both tools of the trade on one button: open chests and doors or, with Shift, disarm a trap.

#showtooltip
/cast [mod:shift] Disarm Trap; Pick Lock

What we don't know yet

• The beta is at level 30. From 31 to 60 we only see what the client brings; the talents at the bottom (Venom, Adrenaline Rush, Thousand Cuts) haven't been tested in real games.
• Blizzard hasn't published the written rogue explainer. There is only an official video with the main points of the class.
• At what level each poison is learned isn't in the client, nor how to obtain Occult Poison I, Sebacious Poison, Numbing Poison and Atrophic Poison.
• Some numbers on finishers (Eviscerate damage per point, Slice and Dice duration) are calculated by the server and the client doesn't bring them.
• Everything can change with every build before November 4. The October 1 notes already touched Expose Armor and Setup.

Frequently asked questions

Which tree is the most comfortable for leveling solo?

Combat: it needs no stealth or being behind the target, its finishers are cheap and it has extra dodge and Blade Flurry. Assassination plays almost the same until 30, when Mutilate arrives. Subtlety levels well but every fight needs an opener.

Do I need daggers?

It depends on the tree. Backstab and Ambush need a dagger in the main hand, and Hemorrhage and Ghostly Strike hit harder with one, so Subtlety wants it. Combat works with any weapon thanks to Hack and Slash. Mutilate strikes with both weapons, so you need one in each hand.

Which poisons should I use?

For leveling, Instant Poison on both hands. In Assassination and against bosses, Deadly Poison in the off hand. In PvP, Crippling Poison or Wound Poison against anyone who heals.

What's new for the rogue in Forever?

Mutilate and the Venom finisher in Assassination; Flawless Execution and Hack and Slash in Combat; Dirty Tricks, Quietus, Cutthroat and Thousand Cuts in Subtlety; and a reworked Hemorrhage that boosts Rupture. Also, Skyborne can be rogues on both sides.

Can I change trees?

Yes: the talent reset is done with the class trainer. With the 5 points of Talented from the Legacy you have 26 at level 30. Try the spreads in the talent calculator or on the rogue page before spending gold.